In note 4, you have “that that” without a comma. I suppose it was in seventh grade that I was taught to use a comma in such a construction. Whenever I see such a comma it looks odd, and here I would have read the two that’s without thinking about it, except for Mrs Oquist’s instruction in seventh grade. May I take it that that lesson is now in the ash heap of history.
There is a venerable custom of separating two consecutive uses of the same word with a comma (“What it is, is a violation of my rights”), but I’ve never really thought it necessary. I suppose there’s something to be said for not using the same word twice in immediate succession, but that’s a different conversation.
One of my Criticism Workshop teachers, probably Richard Gilman, would occasionally note that one of us had lingered too long at, or needed to stop by, the Comma Store. In that class we either read our own papers aloud for collective shaming or the instructor would do so, generally initiating the shaming. But it was a great way to learn to hear commas.
Okay, here's a question I've been meaning to ask for a while: Have you ever addressed the construction "but nor"? As in "neither this but nor that" where, to my ear, the "but" is redundant and annoying. I first encountered this in a British novel a few years back and figured it must be a British thing (though still annoying). But more recently it's showing up in American stuff too. I'd love to know what you think about it.
I love a comma that does a little something, in an invisible way, and I'm a frequent shopper at the Comma Store. I even put them in texts, which some say is ridiculous. I don't disagree, but I, nonetheless, persist.
Interesting that you published this when you did. I think it was Wednesday that I published my latest stack. The opening sentence was a comma explosion—something I’ve never attempted. When I read it I said, “Okay,” and “It somehow reminds me of BD.”
“I don’t know what it is, or why, but often, or always, it seems I attach significance to numbers seen in otherwise mundane instances in my day-to-day experiences.”
Ah, the missed comma in that venerated law firm name: Potter, Stewart and Pornography.
As Bea Lillie might add:
And Son!
And I would add, “And then some!”
In note 4, you have “that that” without a comma. I suppose it was in seventh grade that I was taught to use a comma in such a construction. Whenever I see such a comma it looks odd, and here I would have read the two that’s without thinking about it, except for Mrs Oquist’s instruction in seventh grade. May I take it that that lesson is now in the ash heap of history.
There is a venerable custom of separating two consecutive uses of the same word with a comma (“What it is, is a violation of my rights”), but I’ve never really thought it necessary. I suppose there’s something to be said for not using the same word twice in immediate succession, but that’s a different conversation.
Thank you.
Oh, yes! That Haunting of Hill House comma is very scary. It calls attention to "walks alone." Brilliant and chilling.
One of my Criticism Workshop teachers, probably Richard Gilman, would occasionally note that one of us had lingered too long at, or needed to stop by, the Comma Store. In that class we either read our own papers aloud for collective shaming or the instructor would do so, generally initiating the shaming. But it was a great way to learn to hear commas.
“would occasionally note that one of us had lingered too long at, or needed to stop by, the Comma Store”
Very elegantly done.
Whew!
Extra credit for not skipping the "at," as a hasty writer might well do thus screwing up the tidy parallel construction.
Okay, here's a question I've been meaning to ask for a while: Have you ever addressed the construction "but nor"? As in "neither this but nor that" where, to my ear, the "but" is redundant and annoying. I first encountered this in a British novel a few years back and figured it must be a British thing (though still annoying). But more recently it's showing up in American stuff too. I'd love to know what you think about it.
Wherever it comes from, I loathe it. (I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it in the wild, but now I’ll probably be chased and haunted by it.)
I predict you'll see it soon. I'm glad to know it's not just me.
I now have a lovely mental image of SJ and BD working on that manuscript. Absolutely worth the price of admission!
I love a comma that does a little something, in an invisible way, and I'm a frequent shopper at the Comma Store. I even put them in texts, which some say is ridiculous. I don't disagree, but I, nonetheless, persist.
Interesting that you published this when you did. I think it was Wednesday that I published my latest stack. The opening sentence was a comma explosion—something I’ve never attempted. When I read it I said, “Okay,” and “It somehow reminds me of BD.”
“I don’t know what it is, or why, but often, or always, it seems I attach significance to numbers seen in otherwise mundane instances in my day-to-day experiences.”
Exquisitely done, and you’ve certainly punctuated it as I would have (if that doesn’t sound as if I’m flattering myself).
Whether you are or not, I’ll take it. 🙂