I’ve just gotten increasingly irked yesterday and today by the folk who don’t want it to mean what it (in part) means because it doesn’t serve their purposes for it to mean what it (in part) means. They’re as insincere, I think, as the ones who are screaming excessive bloody murder over it.
Annoying to me since the brouhaha erupted has been the number of people who insist on a specific, narrow meaning of 86. Nope, the meaning of 86 is more general. I've usually heard it used as meaning we're out of something or to cancel something, but yeah, it could mean to get rid of something or someone. It's a heck of a stretch to say it means "assassinate" (canceling an order for a hamburger doesn't mean to assassinate it), though sure, in context it could mean assassinate. Most things in life are fairly fluid, and that includes the meaning of 86. I have no idea what motivates people to insist that they know the one true meaning.
When I was going to be photographed back in 2019 for a newspaper profile, the photographer called me to make arrangements and I asked him whether Sallie should be on the premises or not. "Is she part of your brand?" he asked. "Well, yes," I said. "Then she should be there," he said. And she of course was.
Surely you mean, “It *can* mean that.” As you explain, it can also mean something much less extreme. Which makes a big difference when we’re talking about whether someone should be prosecuted for a felony.
If I'd meant "It can mean that" I'd've written "It can mean that" rather than "It does mean that," which is what I wrote, and which is essentially the premise of the entire little essay.
So you’re saying that it’s clear that “8647” means that the 47th President should be killed? How do we know that it doesn’t mean that he should be “gotten rid of” in some other way, as by impeachment? And how can we be sure that Comey himself meant that it should be understood in the former sense? Comey’s not the most sensible person in the world, but as a former FBI Director surely he would know better than to post an unambiguous threat against the life of the President of the United States.
Could it have been vestigial code from some Manhattan speak's relationship with one-or-more precincts? In the 90s, my Dublin local was The Quill on Aran Quay, just three blocks from the infamous Bridewell Station and lockup. There was a clear and not uncommon relationship between The Quill and Gardai at the Bridey; the Quill locked up and shuttered at closing time, and the barmen would let regulars and Gards ending weekend late shifts in for an additional pint or two with the door locked. I still remember the party for the Bridey's retiring Captain who related to me, the token Yank, that he'd played banjo on stage at the Olympia when Leon Redbone was in town. ---"Sou-oop, sou-oop/ They gave me a bowl of sou-oo-oop!"
If you would like any insight into Comey, read one of his mystery novels. I was in great doubt that he could possibly have not understood what he was doing when he killed the election of Hillary Clinton—until I read the first book. It is incredibly unemotional, totally without insight or empathy. Very workmanly and a good plot. But the heart is missing. Think flat.
They seem to have developed entirely separately, and deep sixing (as you may already know) seems to have a watery origin.
I can't really give credence to the idea that 86’d in the sense of kill is a confused misuse by people who really mean deep six. I think it’s a very short walk from “get rid of that guy” to “kill that guy,” and all the two terms really have in common is the coincidental “six” part.
Yeah, to kill someone is at the very least a subset of the many ways to get rid of them, so it's as absurd to say 86 can't mean kill as it is to say it must mean kill.
"Deep six" almost certainly comes from nautical terminology -- six fathoms deep (three whole Mark Twains!) is deep enough for a burial at sea, but less than that might mean the body will resurface. Then again, graves are traditionally six feet deep, so whattayagonnado?
The leap from “we’re out of something” to “get rid of that guy” is considerably lengthier, I’d say, than the leap from “get rid of that guy” to “kill that guy,” so people who are all like “the first two meanings are fine but the third doesn’t exist” are, well…
Yeah, the steps from "we're out of lettuce" to "the customer wants his hamburger to lack lettuce" to "the boss wants his life and business to lack that particular lettuce-person" are understandable, but it's two steps.
Going from that last one to "Will no one rid me of this turbulent lettuce?" is just the one.
OK, I'm being a nit picker - the original spelling for that bar was Cholmondeley, but pronounced Chumley.....the best part? No sign, no street lamp, no nothing. You either belonged or you didn't. But you knew that.
Then all the while I was living in NYC and we all believed that story, it was not so? what a pity. I'd love to think that there was a true Anglophile who thought it would spoof those living in the Colonies. But not having either a street lamp or name on a simple door that look like it was leading into just another West Village apartment building is accurate.
I’m thinking about the great Mel Brooks’ character, Maxwell Smart, code name Agent 86, which I saw in its original run. My father thought his name was hysterical. Another oddity: My father owned a drugstore in NYC that had a soda fountain. I’m not sure if the counterman shouted “86” when they ran out of rye bread. I do know that my father used the term to alert us (I worked there) when it looked like a shopper intended to abscond without paying.
“… disingenuous dipshit who really stepped in it …”
Just the second sentence—can’t wait for more!
Well, I thought I'd had my fill. This is the cherry on a sundae. Such a delicious essay.
Thank you, Jill.
I’ve just gotten increasingly irked yesterday and today by the folk who don’t want it to mean what it (in part) means because it doesn’t serve their purposes for it to mean what it (in part) means. They’re as insincere, I think, as the ones who are screaming excessive bloody murder over it.
“… schmegegge …” too! Cookin’ with schmaltz, my friend.
And we can only be thankful that Trump and his Trumpettes are so pure of speech as to be offended by the intemperate Comey and his Naughty Seashells.
This is (as usual) wonderful.
Thank you, Elizabeth!
Annoying to me since the brouhaha erupted has been the number of people who insist on a specific, narrow meaning of 86. Nope, the meaning of 86 is more general. I've usually heard it used as meaning we're out of something or to cancel something, but yeah, it could mean to get rid of something or someone. It's a heck of a stretch to say it means "assassinate" (canceling an order for a hamburger doesn't mean to assassinate it), though sure, in context it could mean assassinate. Most things in life are fairly fluid, and that includes the meaning of 86. I have no idea what motivates people to insist that they know the one true meaning.
Really good !
Thank you, Laurie!
Off topic - your Sallie is adorable.
Oh, thank you, Linda!
(Sallie is never really off topic, though, is she.)
When I was going to be photographed back in 2019 for a newspaper profile, the photographer called me to make arrangements and I asked him whether Sallie should be on the premises or not. "Is she part of your brand?" he asked. "Well, yes," I said. "Then she should be there," he said. And she of course was.
Surely you mean, “It *can* mean that.” As you explain, it can also mean something much less extreme. Which makes a big difference when we’re talking about whether someone should be prosecuted for a felony.
If I'd meant "It can mean that" I'd've written "It can mean that" rather than "It does mean that," which is what I wrote, and which is essentially the premise of the entire little essay.
They never learn.
Because they don't try to learn and they're not interested in learning.
So you’re saying that it’s clear that “8647” means that the 47th President should be killed? How do we know that it doesn’t mean that he should be “gotten rid of” in some other way, as by impeachment? And how can we be sure that Comey himself meant that it should be understood in the former sense? Comey’s not the most sensible person in the world, but as a former FBI Director surely he would know better than to post an unambiguous threat against the life of the President of the United States.
I didn’t say that.
Don’t ever put words in my mouth.
Learn to read.
Adios.
Yikes
Ex FBI directors sometimes drink, for one thing.
Could it have been vestigial code from some Manhattan speak's relationship with one-or-more precincts? In the 90s, my Dublin local was The Quill on Aran Quay, just three blocks from the infamous Bridewell Station and lockup. There was a clear and not uncommon relationship between The Quill and Gardai at the Bridey; the Quill locked up and shuttered at closing time, and the barmen would let regulars and Gards ending weekend late shifts in for an additional pint or two with the door locked. I still remember the party for the Bridey's retiring Captain who related to me, the token Yank, that he'd played banjo on stage at the Olympia when Leon Redbone was in town. ---"Sou-oop, sou-oop/ They gave me a bowl of sou-oo-oop!"
Not the slang of my (boomer) generation, but I'd be happy to yeet 47.
(Has "yeet" passed its Best By date?)
I absolutely adore “yeet” and really think I should try to use it more. So perhaps I will!
If you would like any insight into Comey, read one of his mystery novels. I was in great doubt that he could possibly have not understood what he was doing when he killed the election of Hillary Clinton—until I read the first book. It is incredibly unemotional, totally without insight or empathy. Very workmanly and a good plot. But the heart is missing. Think flat.
Another great one. Just wondering if 86 is related to a phrase with a similar meaning: Deep Six.
They seem to have developed entirely separately, and deep sixing (as you may already know) seems to have a watery origin.
I can't really give credence to the idea that 86’d in the sense of kill is a confused misuse by people who really mean deep six. I think it’s a very short walk from “get rid of that guy” to “kill that guy,” and all the two terms really have in common is the coincidental “six” part.
Yeah, to kill someone is at the very least a subset of the many ways to get rid of them, so it's as absurd to say 86 can't mean kill as it is to say it must mean kill.
"Deep six" almost certainly comes from nautical terminology -- six fathoms deep (three whole Mark Twains!) is deep enough for a burial at sea, but less than that might mean the body will resurface. Then again, graves are traditionally six feet deep, so whattayagonnado?
Six is apparently not a healthy number, though.
The leap from “we’re out of something” to “get rid of that guy” is considerably lengthier, I’d say, than the leap from “get rid of that guy” to “kill that guy,” so people who are all like “the first two meanings are fine but the third doesn’t exist” are, well…
Yeah, the steps from "we're out of lettuce" to "the customer wants his hamburger to lack lettuce" to "the boss wants his life and business to lack that particular lettuce-person" are understandable, but it's two steps.
Going from that last one to "Will no one rid me of this turbulent lettuce?" is just the one.
Meaning has been clear to me since I learned it from a Tom Waits song (Eggs and Sausage) back in the mid 70s:
“Now the touch of your fingers lingers burning in my memory
I've been eighty-sixed from your scheme
Now I'm in a melodramatic nocturnal scene…”
OK, I'm being a nit picker - the original spelling for that bar was Cholmondeley, but pronounced Chumley.....the best part? No sign, no street lamp, no nothing. You either belonged or you didn't. But you knew that.
Chumley’s was opened by a person named Chumley.
Then all the while I was living in NYC and we all believed that story, it was not so? what a pity. I'd love to think that there was a true Anglophile who thought it would spoof those living in the Colonies. But not having either a street lamp or name on a simple door that look like it was leading into just another West Village apartment building is accurate.
I’m thinking about the great Mel Brooks’ character, Maxwell Smart, code name Agent 86, which I saw in its original run. My father thought his name was hysterical. Another oddity: My father owned a drugstore in NYC that had a soda fountain. I’m not sure if the counterman shouted “86” when they ran out of rye bread. I do know that my father used the term to alert us (I worked there) when it looked like a shopper intended to abscond without paying.
Cue “Get Smart” theme song. 😀